Subtlety Rogue guide for WoW Forever

The Subtlety Rogue in WoW Forever finally has two real PvE builds. One deals huge critical Ambushes, and the new talent Cutthroat lets you use Ambush in combat. The other builds on bleeds, with Hemorrhage, a stronger Rupture and the new Thousand Cuts. Poisons can now land critical strikes and scale with attack power too. This guide covers both builds for level 30 and 60, the rotations, Energy, poisons, survival, stats and races.

Role	Melee damage, with daggers or bleeds
Builds	Ambush with Cutthroat (10/11/30) and bleed with Thousand Cuts (12/8/31) at level 60
Key talents	Malice, Opportunity, Initiative, Ghostly Strike, Serrated Blades, Preparation, Hemorrhage, Cutthroat, Thousand Cuts
Strength	Two playstyles, bleeds ignore armor, lots of crowd control
Weakness	Needs gear, best talents only at high level
Leveling	Rogue leveling guide, Rogue level build

Strengths and weaknesses

Two playstyles. Ambush with Cutthroat or bleeds with Hemorrhage. Both hold up well in long fights.

Bleeds ignore armor. Rupture and Garrote ignore armor completely, which pays off against heavily armored monsters and bosses.

Crowd control. Kick, Gouge, Sap, Cheap Shot, Kidney Shot and Blind, plus poisons that slow, lengthen casts or lower healing.

Depends on the fight. The Ambush build needs to stand behind the target, which suits dungeons and raids better than the open world. Some monsters are immune to bleeds.

Needs gear. Rupture, Garrote and poisons scale with attack power and can land critical strikes, so you need both.

Needs levels. The best talents sit at the bottom of the tree. Many players level with another spec and switch to Subtlety later.

Level 30 builds

At level 30 you have 21 points, and Talented adds 5. Both builds are explained in our Rogue leveling guide.

• Ambush: kills monsters as fast as possible with critical Ambushes from Stealth. Open the build, Talented version.
• Bleed: Garrote, Hemorrhage and Rupture, with Serrated Blades for a stronger Rupture and Preparation for an extra Slice and Dice. Open the build, Talented version.

Level 60 Ambush build with Cutthroat: 10/11/30

The beta stopped at level 30, but the talent trees for level 60 are in the game files. We checked this build point for point in our talent calculator. Cutthroat makes Backstab your main generator and gives you procs to Ambush in combat. Serrated Blades adds 9% armor penetration, and Hemorrhage covers fights where you cannot stand behind the monster.

Talent	Points
Malice (Assassination)	5/5
Murder (Assassination)	2/2
Improved Slice and Dice (Assassination)	3/3
Improved Eviscerate (Combat)	3/3
Lightning Reflexes (Combat)	2/5
Puncturing Wounds (Combat)	3/3
Precision (Combat)	3/3
Master of Deception	3/3
Opportunity	2/2
Setup	3/3
Elusiveness	2/2
Dirty Tricks	2/2
Improved Ambush	3/3
Initiative	3/3
Ghostly Strike	1/1
Premeditation	1/1
Serrated Blades	3/3
Preparation	1/1
Hemorrhage	1/1
Cutthroat	5/5

There are not enough points left for Relentless Strikes, so Murder takes the last 2 points in Assassination. Ruthlessness 2/3 is an alternative, with a lower chance to proc.

Level 60 bleed build with Thousand Cuts: 12/8/31

All the way down the Subtlety tree. Open the build in the talent calculator. Quietus raises the damage of Hemorrhage and Ghostly Strike against monsters below 35% health, and Thousand Cuts makes Hemorrhage cheaper with every tick of Rupture.

Talent	Points
Malice (Assassination)	5/5
Ruthlessness (Assassination)	3/3
Improved Slice and Dice (Assassination)	3/3
Relentless Strikes (Assassination)	1/1
Improved Eviscerate (Combat)	3/3
Lightning Reflexes (Combat)	2/5
Precision (Combat)	3/3
Camouflage	1/5
Master of Deception	3/3
Opportunity	2/2
Setup	3/3
Elusiveness	2/2
Dirty Tricks	2/2
Initiative	3/3
Ghostly Strike	1/1
Premeditation	1/1
Serrated Blades	3/3
Dirty Deeds	2/2
Preparation	1/1
Hemorrhage	1/1
Quietus	5/5
Thousand Cuts	1/1

What the key talents do

Talent	What it does in Forever
Malice	5% more critical strike chance with attacks and poisons
Remorseless Attacks	After a kill, 40% more critical strike chance on your next Sinister Strike, Backstab, Ambush, Mutilate or Ghostly Strike
Ruthlessness	Finishing moves have a 60% chance to add a Combo Point
Improved Slice and Dice	Slice and Dice lasts 45% longer
Relentless Strikes	Finishing moves have a 20% chance per Combo Point to restore 25 Energy
Precision	3% more chance to hit
Opportunity	Backstab, Garrote, Ambush and Mutilate deal 10% more damage
Master of Deception	Monsters detect you in Stealth as if you were 3 levels higher
Setup	A Combo Point whenever you dodge an attack or resist a spell
Initiative	Ambush, Garrote and Cheap Shot add an extra Combo Point
Ghostly Strike	180% weapon damage with a dagger and 15% more dodge for 7 seconds
Serrated Blades	Your attacks ignore 9% armor, and Rupture deals 30% more damage
Premeditation	Adds 2 Combo Points to your target
Preparation	Finishes the cooldown of your other Rogue abilities
Hemorrhage	145% weapon damage with a dagger, and 15% more Rupture damage on the target for 15 seconds
Dirty Deeds	Cheap Shot and Garrote cost 20 Energy less, and Garrote no longer needs you behind the target
Quietus	Sinister Strike, Ghostly Strike and Hemorrhage deal 10% more damage below 35% health
Cutthroat	Backstab has a 15% chance to let your next Ambush within 10 seconds skip Stealth
Thousand Cuts	Every tick of Rupture makes your next Hemorrhage or Backstab 3 Energy cheaper, up to 5 times

Rotation

Ambush build

1. Go into Stealth and cast Premeditation.
2. Open with Ambush.
3. Stay behind the target and use Backstab as your generator. Where you cannot stand behind it, use Hemorrhage.
4. Use Ghostly Strike on cooldown.
5. Use Ambush whenever Cutthroat procs and you have fewer than 5 Combo Points. At 5, use a finishing move first.
6. At 5 Combo Points, cast Slice and Dice and renew it when it runs out.
7. In long fights, cast Expose Armor at the next 5 Combo Points.
8. Spend the rest on Eviscerate.
9. Vanish and Ambush for burst, and Preparation to reset your cooldowns or to escape.

Bleed build

1. Go into Stealth and cast Premeditation.
2. Open with Garrote.
3. Use Hemorrhage as your generator and Ghostly Strike on cooldown.
4. At 5 Combo Points, cast Slice and Dice, then Rupture at the next 5.
5. Spend Thousand Cuts on Hemorrhage before or at 5 stacks.
6. Spend the rest on Eviscerate, and Expose Armor on bosses if your group needs it.
7. Vanish and Garrote for burst, and Preparation to reset your cooldowns or to escape.

Several monsters

Rogues have no area attacks: kill one monster at a time. Never switch targets while you build Combo Points, or you lose them.

Stealth, Combo Points and finishing moves

Stealth slows you, up to 50% at low levels and 30% at level 60, so you do not travel in it, but you do use it against most monsters. In Stealth you get openers: Ambush for a big hit, Garrote for a bleed, Sap and Cheap Shot to disable.

Your generators are Sinister Strike at first, later Backstab, Ghostly Strike and Hemorrhage. Your finishing moves are Eviscerate, Slice and Dice, Expose Armor and Rupture. Keeping Slice and Dice up is the biggest damage boost you have. Kidney Shot stuns a dangerous monster.

Energy

Energy now regenerates smoothly, 1 point every 0.1 seconds, so 10 per second. Thousand Cuts saves up to 15 Energy on a Hemorrhage, and Thistle Tea gives a large amount back on a long cooldown. Otherwise: never build a Combo Point above 5, and do not spend Energy on Kick, Feint, Gouge or Blind without a reason.

Poisons

From level 20, a quest chain teaches you to make poisons. Use Instant Poison and Deadly Poison in most fights: Instant Poison on slow weapons, Deadly Poison on fast ones. Switch to Crippling, Mind-numbing or Wound Poison when a monster must be slowed, cast slower or healed less.

Survival

Rogues hit hard but fall fast. Judge every pull: Sap one monster out of a group, preferably a caster. Open with Cheap Shot, follow with Kidney Shot, and stretch it with Gouge or Blind when you need Energy or cooldowns. Use Evasion when you must take hits, Kick every caster, and Vanish when nothing else works.

Stats and gear

Stat priorities for level 60 follow after the launch. Until then:

• Agility: 1 attack power per point, 1% critical strike chance per 29 Agility, 1% dodge per 14.5 Agility.
• Attack power, which now also raises the damage of your poisons.
• Critical strike chance, also for poisons and Rupture.
• Strength: 1 attack power per point, nothing else.
• Stamina for health, found on most gear.
• Spirit only for regeneration between fights.

Armor. Leather with the stats above. Sets such as Defias Leather and Embrace of the Viper are good while you level.

Weapons. Weapons are much stronger now at every level. Any type works, but your abilities scale best with daggers, and the Ambush build needs them. Good examples are Meteor Shard, Toxic Revenger, Assassin’s Blade and Torturing Poker.

Races and professions

Faction	Race	Why
Alliance	Human	2% critical strike chance from Ruthless, the best choice
Alliance	Night Elf	Elune’s Light, 10% critical strike chance for 15 seconds; Shadowmeld and better Stealth
Alliance	Gnome	Eureka! for burst, Engineering Specialization with Engineering
Alliance	Dwarf	Stoneform removes bleeds, poisons and diseases; weak for damage
Alliance	Skyborne	3% haste from Wind Blessed
Horde	Orc	10% attack power from Blood Fury, the best choice
Horde	Troll	10% haste from Berserking and a survival tool
Horde	Undead	Better for PvP; Cannibalize saves time in the open world
Horde	Skyborne	3% haste from Wind Blessed

Leatherworking with Skinning is the best pair: strong leather gear at every level, armor kits, and the Camp Tent from camping that speeds up leveling. Engineering brings gadgets and explosives for more damage and is the best partner for Leatherworking if you skip Skinning. Herbalism with Alchemy gives you elixirs, potions and flasks.